Immortality: The Quest To Live Forever And How It Drives Civilization (2012) - Plot & Excerpts
Interesting book in which the author handily address the claims and ideas behind the various immortality narratives, as he calls them. He is at his best when taking on these claims directly, and showing where they fail. For example, when talking about how theologians tie themselves in knots attempting to describe heaven, as the possible locations for such a place get pushed further and further out of possibility, capped off with a quote from motherfucker Joseph Ratzinger, aka Pope Benedict XVI, making the meaningless statement that heaven is the new 'space' of the body of Christ. I think that the author occasionally overreaches on his argument for the quest for immortality being the driver of, well, everything humans do, without giving enough credit to other drivers such as selfishness and just plain stupidity (wrt procreation), but that is all a matter of degree.The biggest problem I have with the book is over his use of the Mortality Paradox - the idea that we know we will die, but that we can not imagine the state of non-existence. I agree with the first part, but not the second. I know I stand in opposition to a raft-load of philosophers, that he has quoted, but I still don't buy it. The reason given is that even when trying to imagine the universe without, there is still an observer, and that observer is you, and thus you must, in the words of Freud, "in the unconscious [still be] convinced of his own immortality." I think this claim fails on several points.1) It limits human imagination in an arbitrary manner. There is no acknowledgement that maybe I can imagine things without explicitly being the observer, i.e. as someone else. Or maybe even as an abstract observer, with no actual substance, which leads into the next point.2) It fails to treat imagination as imagination. By their argument, if I try to imagine myself as someone else, observing something, I can't because I only my own experience to draw on. But that's the fucking point of imagination - to think about things that aren't necessarily so. I can draw on all kinds of experience to *imagine* things that I have actually never observed, and thus where I couldn't be the actual observer.3) It fails to consistently apply the claim. Using the same argument as the mortality paradox, it must also be the case that I believe I have lived forever, since I can't possibly image the universe *before* I existed. But I can imagine it, and I don't believe that I've always existed. The same argument applies to anytime I imagine from a point of view I can't actually do, for example in the deep vacuum of space.4) It makes an unwarranted leap from the claim that it impossible to imagine non-existence (I still don't buy it), to the claim we must therefore believe in our own immortality. For the first, it might be possible to put forth testable propositions, but for the second, it comes down to philosophers telling me I don't believe what I think and say I do believe. Maybe they know my belief state better than I do, but there will need to be a lot stronger proof for me to accept that claim. Has the desire to live forever created human civilization? The definition has to be cast broadly, but Stephen Cave makes his case. "Staying Alive" and leaving our "Legacy" (our children) certainly fuel most of our actions as humans including creating social groups, and in theory, through evolution, these two things determine all that we do. I remain unconvinced whether art and religion are a side effect of our evolution or truly an effect of the "Mortality Paradox" a psychological imperative Mr. Cave describes where we cannot imagine what it will feel like to be dead, yet know we will die. Ultimately the struggle to define how we might live forever is undermined by the difficulty in defining the "self". If you don't know what makes you YOU how can you know if it lives forever? Stephen Cave claims there is no good way for us to live forever, to me it seemed that there are many ways to live forever, if only which part of "us" is the most important. The more difficult question is on closer inspection do we really *want* to live forever and given the way we attempt to live forever, would it be worth the cost?Thought provoking book and an easy, interesting read.
What do You think about Immortality: The Quest To Live Forever And How It Drives Civilization (2012)?
fantastic and insightful. lots to think sbout, but easy to read as well.
—Jergos
